Comments on: Getting to know your users versus the privacy debate http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/ Smaller, Faster, Easier Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:00:04 +0200 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: 0123hallo http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-411 0123hallo Tue, 14 Apr 2009 15:37:59 +0000 http://www.miranda-im.org/?p=199#comment-411 Hi! I wanna talk about: - our polls - bug tracker - continue to work on a plugin First, I want to say that I really like you guys respond in such a way! I think it is import to have one place where you can report bugs and make feature request: the bug tracker... well... I heard people saying: "The bug tracker is stupid, because some developers are doing whatever they want to do. It is just necessary in terms to make Miranda IM a serious project. It is a 'must have' with no real function". That is one way you can look at it. I don't want to say that this is right, but there is grain of truth in it.... I don't know how much developers talk about further development, but sometimes I have got the feeling, reminding you of moving the Jabber items from the main menu to the status menu, that the development is not consistently. Yeah... the polls... Biased sample... ^^ yes, there weren't many participants and these polls cannot be generalized. Seesaw... there is some truth in these polls! After releasing a new testing build people start to "report" bugs in the (German) forum. And people confirm these... but nothing more happens.... they talk and talk... confirm and confirm... and after writing 1/2 or 1 page about that I have a look in the bug tracker and there is not a bug report! It is like: "hm... here is a fire... someone SHOULD call the fire brigade. hm... anyone SHOULD do something." Yes, someone who uses the testing should know how to report a bug, well and really report them! It is the same with the "Miranda packs"... specially for beginners... well... I have never seen a guy who uses a Miranda pack reporting a bug. Now, I maybe talked to much about that... concluding I would like to say, that there are many people who use a testing in opposition to its real purpose! I agree with Lastwebpage.... I would love plugin developer to continue their work and to continue other people's work. Coming to the end, I want to thank you for developing Miranda IM. I hope you did not misunderstand me. Keep it up! Hi!
I wanna talk about:
- our polls
- bug tracker
- continue to work on a plugin

First, I want to say that I really like you guys respond in such a way!
I think it is import to have one place where you can report bugs and make feature request: the bug tracker… well… I heard people saying: “The bug tracker is stupid, because some developers are doing whatever they want to do. It is just necessary in terms to make Miranda IM a serious project. It is a ‘must have’ with no real function”. That is one way you can look at it. I don’t want to say that this is right, but there is grain of truth in it…. I don’t know how much developers talk about further development, but sometimes I have got the feeling, reminding you of moving the Jabber items from the main menu to the status menu, that the development is not consistently.

Yeah… the polls… Biased sample… ^^ yes, there weren’t many participants and these polls cannot be generalized. Seesaw… there is some truth in these polls! After releasing a new testing build people start to “report” bugs in the (German) forum. And people confirm these… but nothing more happens…. they talk and talk… confirm and confirm… and after writing 1/2 or 1 page about that I have a look in the bug tracker and there is not a bug report! It is like: “hm… here is a fire… someone SHOULD call the fire brigade. hm… anyone SHOULD do something.” Yes, someone who uses the testing should know how to report a bug, well and really report them! It is the same with the “Miranda packs”… specially for beginners… well… I have never seen a guy who uses a Miranda pack reporting a bug.
Now, I maybe talked to much about that… concluding I would like to say, that there are many people who use a testing in opposition to its real purpose!

I agree with Lastwebpage…. I would love plugin developer to continue their work and to continue other people’s work.

Coming to the end, I want to thank you for developing Miranda IM. I hope you did not misunderstand me.

Keep it up!

]]> By: Nergal http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-406 Nergal Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:09:01 +0000 http://www.miranda-im.org/?p=199#comment-406 While I believe that there is some data in the posted surveys, it is also true, as said in a post in that discussion, that the results are skewed by the fact that most forum participants are .8 users while an unspoken population of .7 users still exist. I recently Downloaded and watched the development Swarm Movie from the nightly Build's website. It gave me MUCH more respect and understanding for "Who want to decide what is a good feature request, what is only a waste of time?" (I admit I was upset with Borka on our initial interaction over the Weather Plugin and Now I see how the above quote can come into play in that interaction) Truthfully I'm pretty certain that .8 is Highly adopted, however I'm one with the core developers that there are just a few things in it still waiting to be finished to the point of an actual release. I think VI and the VI site out to be a LARGE indication on the Software Side of things mentioned in you post. It already is a opt in/out thing, a User can choose whether or not to upload their VI, but you (developers) can only work with those who choose TO upload it. Miranda is a Wonderfully Modular program, but, just like the PalmOS, the more you use add-ons the more likely a bug will rear it's head. I do wonder if download counts attached to both the .7 "Stable" and the .8 "development" may answer some of this question, as well as to look at "packs" and see the version they are more likely (median/Average) to include. While I believe that there is some data in the posted surveys, it is also true, as said in a post in that discussion, that the results are skewed by the fact that most forum participants are .8 users while an unspoken population of .7 users still exist.
I recently Downloaded and watched the development Swarm Movie from the nightly Build’s website. It gave me MUCH more respect and understanding for “Who want to decide what is a good feature request, what is only a waste of time?”
(I admit I was upset with Borka on our initial interaction over the Weather Plugin and Now I see how the above quote can come into play in that interaction)
Truthfully I’m pretty certain that .8 is Highly adopted, however I’m one with the core developers that there are just a few things in it still waiting to be finished to the point of an actual release.
I think VI and the VI site out to be a LARGE indication on the Software Side of things mentioned in you post. It already is a opt in/out thing, a User can choose whether or not to upload their VI, but you (developers) can only work with those who choose TO upload it.
Miranda is a Wonderfully Modular program, but, just like the PalmOS, the more you use add-ons the more likely a bug will rear it’s head.
I do wonder if download counts attached to both the .7 “Stable” and the .8 “development” may answer some of this question, as well as to look at “packs” and see the version they are more likely (median/Average) to include.

]]> By: Lastwebpage http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-405 Lastwebpage Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:47:56 +0000 http://www.miranda-im.org/?p=199#comment-405 @zodiack, it cuts both ways. Sure some things are "bad by design" and more or less easy to fix, e.g.for me this blinking tray icon for auth request is the most annoying thing at all. What about a simple messagebox? On the other site, look in the tabSrmm or Clist_modern options, "Hey I want ...", "Here!...", regardless that only 1-2 users "need" this feature and 1000 users are only confuse or get errors. Some other feature requests... Miranda is not a coffee machine. ;) Who want to decide what is a good feature request, what is only a waste of time? --------------- And can someone remember the problems with this UUID number? I think this discussion was a good example about what happens if some very important things changed and there are some plugins that not support this new thing. Unfortunately I fear that some things can't change without the loss of some old plugins. --------------- And another one. Koobs wrote here or in "How to help" in the wiki about the delvelopers. I can't say how I thank the current main developers, Borkra and Ghazan, and the other "core/protocol/plugin" developers rainwater, mlu, Joe, the_leech, nightwish,vpavlychko,Pescuma, Scott Ellis, nullbie, Eblis, ... (sorry if I forgot YOU... ;) ) but how many peoples 10-20? Only a few people develope the main Miranda. But when I see on the other side that some other developers spend all the free time to develope the 10th version of the same plugin, enhance the own plugins with useless things or develope new plugins which can ..., I think some things goes in wrong direction. Miranda is a messenger, it seems to me that some developers forget this, is it really an impossible mission that 5 developers make ONE plugin? ------------- That was my two cents for the moment. @zodiack, it cuts both ways.
Sure some things are “bad by design” and more or less easy to fix, e.g.for me this blinking tray icon for auth request is the most annoying thing at all. What about a simple messagebox?
On the other site, look in the tabSrmm or Clist_modern options, “Hey I want …”, “Here!…”, regardless that only 1-2 users “need” this feature and 1000 users are only confuse or get errors. Some other feature requests… Miranda is not a coffee machine. ;)
Who want to decide what is a good feature request, what is only a waste of time?
—————
And can someone remember the problems with this UUID number? I think this discussion was a good example about what happens if some very important things changed and there are some plugins that not support this new thing.
Unfortunately I fear that some things can’t change without the loss of some old plugins.
—————
And another one. Koobs wrote here or in “How to help” in the wiki about the delvelopers.
I can’t say how I thank the current main developers, Borkra and Ghazan, and the other “core/protocol/plugin” developers rainwater, mlu, Joe, the_leech, nightwish,vpavlychko,Pescuma, Scott Ellis, nullbie, Eblis, … (sorry if I forgot YOU… ;) )
but how many peoples 10-20? Only a few people develope the main Miranda.

But when I see on the other side that some other developers spend all the free time to develope the 10th version of the same plugin, enhance the own plugins with useless things or develope new plugins which can …, I think some things goes in wrong direction. Miranda is a messenger, it seems to me that some developers forget this, is it really an impossible mission that 5 developers make ONE plugin?
————-
That was my two cents for the moment.

]]> By: zodiack http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-404 zodiack Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:21:11 +0000 http://www.miranda-im.org/?p=199#comment-404 The problem is, that developers often do not listen to users. Most of time developers develop stuff their own way, indenpendently of what users think or suggest. They listen only when they want to fix a bug for their old-style system, which they developed yesterday. Miranda misses a lots of simple details, which are not present even when suggested thousands times, like why doesn't file transfer windows even FLASH when transfer is completed? That's only one of many things which are problem. I'm looking forward to testing modern options, hope it will be present in next build The problem is, that developers often do not listen to users. Most of time developers develop stuff their own way, indenpendently of what users think or suggest. They listen only when they want to fix a bug for their old-style system, which they developed yesterday.

Miranda misses a lots of simple details, which are not present even when suggested thousands times, like why doesn’t file transfer windows even FLASH when transfer is completed?

That’s only one of many things which are problem.

I’m looking forward to testing modern options, hope it will be present in next build

]]> By: koobs http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-402 koobs Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:43:01 +0000 http://www.miranda-im.org/?p=199#comment-402 There's plenty of non-technical stuff people can contribute to :] http://wiki.miranda-im.org/How_to_help Ta for the feedback There’s plenty of non-technical stuff people can contribute to :]

http://wiki.miranda-im.org/How_to_help

Ta for the feedback

]]> By: invertedquestionmark http://www.miranda-im.org/2009/04/11/getting-to-know-your-users-versus-the-privacy-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-401 invertedquestionmark Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:36:01 +0000 http://www.miranda-im.org/?p=199#comment-401 All of these issues are covered in sociological literature... Too bad my Social Research courses start next year, I thought I'd finally be able to contribute to an open source project without writing any code. :) All of these issues are covered in sociological literature… Too bad my Social Research courses start next year, I thought I’d finally be able to contribute to an open source project without writing any code. :)

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